I35 Bridge and the completely expected rhetoric

There has been a lot of finger pointing and flat out lies already flying off tv and the blog world regarding the collapse of the I35 bridge. I have read several articles that blamed everyone from Bush for having troops in Iraq to Republicans not funding infrastructure properly since 1990. ( Best I recall, the Democrats controlled both the White House and Congress during a huge chunk of the 90′s. )

I find all this kind of bizarro rhetoric because of one simple issue that is being completely 0mitted from these discussions.

Wasn’t one of the bridges closed for repairs?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure it was.

So, it it was closed for repairs, doesn’t that sort of make the finger pointing mute at THIS point in time? Since it was first identified as at risk, in 1990, it seems just about everyone from the governors of Minnesota to the Congressmen and Senators representing Minnesota can carry some of the blame. But to say we didn’t have the resources to repair it, when it was being repaired, just sounds kind of shallow to me. Someone needs to inform Katie Couric, among other obvious ones, that she’s sounding kind of stupid right now.

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  • http://moonagewebdream.blogs.com/storms_counter_terrorism/ Stormwarning

    The country’s infrastructure (bridges, roadways, dams for example) are all in a state of disrepair. The I-35 bridge isn’t the real issue. The benign neglect over the years is what I’d be concerned about. It isn’t a political issue either, at least it shouldn’t be.

  • Moonage

    Well, I agree it shouldn’t be, but some people obviously disagree and are more than willing to make it one. It just kind of galls me that these people are blaming Bush and Congress for not fixing it when one of the victims was a construction worker trying to fix it. We recently replaced pretty much most of the major bridges in this area. Now they’re fixing a leaky dam. The work’s being done but the problem with the infrastructure in my opinion is not the least bit political as billions are spent every year on infrastructure. The problem as I see it is we don’t understand basic physics well enough to know which ones are going to collapse and which ones just look like they will. States get a ton of money from the feds every year for fixing bridges and roads. It’s up to them to identify which ones need repairs or don’t. Maybe it needs to be left to the feds to make that determination? That’s the only real debate here. The money’s there and always has been. The problem is “politics” is getting the blame here where I don’t think it applies. My rule here is that I like to look at things realistically and de-bunk the rhetoric. This is yet another prime example of where rhetoric completely ignores fact and for the most part, people just rush to conclusions totally omitting the obvious reality. The reality here is the bridge was being fixed and very likely the reason for the collapse was the process of those reparations. The rhetoric is we have a political problem.

  • http://moonagewebdream.blogs.com/storms_counter_terrorism/ Stormwarning

    Under every bridge and overpass in America there is some degree of rotting out of the understructure. If I remember correctly (and I may not since I get older everyday – all those lost brain cells are coming back to haunt me), there is a long overpass (or is it a bridge) on 80 near you. Its used by trucks and cars and its exposed to the elements. If maintainence and repairs aren’t done, it could someday crumble.

    Here’s an idea (that isn’t new or revolutionary). We’ve got unemployed people, we have illegal aliens, we have all sorts of people needing work. Its probably time for a rebirth of the goold old WPA. Let everyone help to rebuild our roads and bridges. Want to be a citizen of this country? Build a bridge and walk across it. Some might call it slave labor. I call it Rebuild America.

  • Moonage

    My grandfather helped build a lot of the bridges around here in the 50′s. Since then, most of them have been replaced. About the only truly aging bridge here is a Norfolk-Southern railroad bridge that just looks horrible. However, that’s their bridge and not owned by the public. So, it’s really not the same issue here as it is in some places I guess. However, my point that seems to keep getting lost is the bridges ARE being fixed currently. Sure, there are some really bad ones across the country, but I bet the bigger and more heavily utilized ones are kept pretty safe. The I35 bridge was under repair when it collapsed. It is not the example of a decaying infrastructure that some people are saying it is. Crap happens occasionally, that’s not always a symbol of the state of the entire situation. So, I really don’t see the need to do something drastic such as re-forming the WPA. ( They were paid, and paid fairly well, so it’s not slave labor. ) This could be an example to examine our techniques for working on bridges, but no one seems to be calling for that.

  • http://moonagewebdream.blogs.com/storms_counter_terrorism/ Stormwarning

    Well, in that case it might actually be cheaper to deploy some of those fancy stress and fracture type sensors…get realtime monitoring and alerts.

  • http://politics.moonagewebdream.com Moonage

    That’s more what I had in mind. It seems whenever something happens, the usual rhetoric takes over with people pointing fingers in every direction and not stopping for five seconds to figure out what the true problem is. Rather than people spending a bunch of time and mental energy trying to pin it down on convervatives or liberals, Democrats or Republicans, or whatever generic label they prefer, if all those people spent that same mental energy trying to figure out what actually went wrong, in the context of what actually happened, then we might fix the problem in the future. Those sensors, if built in mass, would be dirt cheap. Connecting them to a centralizing database to constantly analyze that raw data real-time I would think would be a very simple programming effort to do.

    So, instead of fighting imaginary windmills ( pointing blame for not maintaining the bridge when it was in the process of being maintained at the time ), we have a possible solution. Just need to pretty it up, send it to a Congressman, get some pork, and fix the problem. I think that’s a lot more rewarding than the frustration of not seeing the problem solved because the previous solution did not address a real issue.

  • http://moonagewebdream.blogs.com/storms_counter_terrorism/ Stormwarning

    And here is just one example of “quick finds” (about 10 minutes):

    Full-time sensors can detect bridge defects – Crack detection sensors proven on aircraft structures
    Networks of small, permanently mounted sensors could soon check continuously for the formation of structural defects in I-beams and other critical structural supports of bridges and highway overpasses, giving structural engineers a better chance of heading off catastrophic failures.

    Infrastructure Testing

    With independent infrastructure – from our own powergrid, water system and telecommunications network – to emergency services and transportation systems, the laboratory’s Test Range has become the premiere location for utility companies and equipment manufacturers to analyze operation systems and components against full-scale versions of the nation’s critical infrastructures.

    The INL specializes in developing solutions and tools that protect infrastructure from both physical and cyber attacks. We are currently developing transmission line sensors which help detect vibrations and tampering on power lines, and we are working to construct smart antennas systems which provide more reliable and secure wireless communications through cell phones and laptops.

    The laboratory also specializes in creating tools and solutions to secure America’s infrastructure systems from cyberspace. We work with both the Department of Energy and the Department of Homeland Security to test, analyze, and provide solutions to help secure the computer systems that operate the electric powergrid, chemical plants, and oil and gas refineries.

    Now, if you and I could only get paid to do the searching and we knew a place to create a mass production facility to make these sensors, we might be in business…LOL

    Its a whole lot easier for a neophyte to complain about stuff they know nothing about, than for guys like us who know “stuff” to get paid to do it.

  • Moonage

    I knew some of that stuff was already out there. They use it every now and then already. The key in my opinion is to set this stuff up to be proactive in monitoring as opposed to reactive in trying to figure what went wrong after something bad occurs. That’s not too much of a mindset change I don’t think. Sounds like a good time to apply for a billion dollar grant from the Department of Transportation to me.

    And yeah, it’s always easier to bitch and moan than it is to do something.

  • http://moonagewebdream.blogs.com/storms_counter_terrorism/ Stormwarning

    It just always amazes me that all of this stuff exists, we all know about the problems with critical infrastructure, and yet no one can get paid to match technologies with needs.

  • http://politics.moonagewebdream.com/2007/04/01/tommy-thompsons-in/ Moonage

    There was no perceived demand for it pre-I35. Given most people’s attention span, I imagine it will be forgotten by next week.

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